GEORGE AVAKIAN
Producer of the USSR Tour

Julian Milkis: Why was Benny Goodman chosen for the tour in the USSR?

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It was very simple. I made the decision myself and recommended him to the State Department. The reasons were quite clear. First, Benny's family had once emigrated from Russia to America as refugees. They arrived with nothing but managed to build a good life for themselves. Benny himself was an incredible person, deeply devoted to his work. I knew no one who was so fully committed to what he did. He would do anything to find time for practice, no matter where he was. His apartment was littered with clarinet reeds – he would play them once or twice and then throw them away, luckily without having to pay for them.

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Why was Benny Goodman chosen for the USSR tour instead of Louis Armstrong?

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​Initially, they considered Louis Armstrong, but the authorities feared that his immense popularity might lead to mass excitement and possible riots. Unlike Armstrong, Goodman was a calm and serious musician without a strong personal charisma, which made him more suitable for the authorities. Armstrong did eventually play for Soviet audiences, but it was outside the USSR – in Poland and neighboring countries. I’m not exactly sure why this decision was made, and I didn’t ask the questions I probably should have. His manager was handling all of these matters.

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Armstrong's manager, Joe Glaser, had a dubious reputation and was associated with the Chicago mob. He oversaw all the clubs where musicians performed, especially on Chicago’s South Side. That’s where he and Armstrong met, and Armstrong trusted him. When the mafia tried to take control of Armstrong's career, he turned to Glaser and said, ‘Look! I want to break away from these people. Be my manager and help me get out of this.’ That was around 1928 or 1929.

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From then on, Glaser managed Armstrong’s career. They had an unusual arrangement: instead of a signed contract, Armstrong would receive a new car every year, and all his bills and taxes were paid. He didn’t have to worry about anything except his music.

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However, Glaser was somewhat narrow-minded and did many things to keep Armstrong under control, fearing that he might seek a freer life and leave. Despite this ‘chain’ that bound him to Glaser, Armstrong still enjoyed an incredible life, and I don’t know any other musician who derived as much pleasure from life as he did.

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When you look at Armstrong’s face, you can immediately see how happy he was doing what he loved...

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​He preferred playing the trumpet over anything else and did it constantly. Sometimes my brother and I would visit him at his home, and no matter what we were doing, he would take out his trumpet, warm up a bit, then put it back in the case and say, ‘Well, that’s enough for today!’

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Returning to Benny Goodman’s tour… How important was it for the American government that the tour was successful?

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​The American government realized that Goodman was the most popular American musician, specifically in jazz—however you want to call it. He would probably draw larger audiences than anyone else they could send, which was the primary reason he was chosen for this tour.

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When they decided to send him, the decision was made at the highest level in Washington. They reviewed him carefully from all perspectives, including his political stance. Since he wasn’t involved in politics in any way, he was considered a safe choice to represent the United States in the Soviet Union.

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Were you present at the concert attended by Khrushchev?

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​I’m talking about Goodman’s first rehearsal in Moscow. Khrushchev attended and gave a short speech. There’s a great photo of Khrushchev and Benny Goodman with other officials, and I think I’m in the corner of it.

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​​Benny Goodman told me that Khrushchev shook his hand and said, “This isn’t my kind of music; I prefer Mozart.” To which Benny replied, “I knew there would be at least one thing we’d both like.” A tricky question: Did you know that someone from the tour team was associated with the CIA?

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​No, absolutely not. These musicians weren’t interested in politics and wouldn’t have made good government agents. Jazz musicians are independent-minded, and none of them had any interests outside of music.

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There’s a recorded report Benny Goodman gave to President Kennedy upon returning to the White House.

Did you know about this?

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​I don’t know about that. Actually, I arrived a day later than everyone else because the Soviet authorities made things difficult for us. They delayed my visa delivery at the airport, so I missed the musicians’ flight and arrived a day later.

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Were you and the musicians briefed on how to behave in the USSR before the trip?

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​No. It was assumed everyone would behave their best since we represented our country. We enjoyed the unique experiences of the trip. The musicians really were ambassadors, welcoming interaction with Soviet musicians and even performing together. This sent a positive message that Americans weren’t “monsters,” which was important for the government given the tense relations between the U.S. and the Soviet Union at the time.

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I was a bit concerned because I was the only one on the tour born in the Soviet Union, and I thought they might single me out somehow. My father, who was very cautious about the Soviet government, warned me to keep my distance from anything suspicious. But nothing happened.

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The tour included a visit to Tbilisi, your family’s hometown, correct?

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​Yes, it was very moving to be allowed to roam freely, especially in Tbilisi, where my family’s home still stood at 63 Olginskaya Street.

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Visiting Tbilisi was particularly special because I met people who remembered me from when I was 2-3-4 years old. There’s a photo in the NYPL archive of me with an elderly lady who was over 90 and remembered me very well. She told me stories about things that happened to me, which I later confirmed with my mother.

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Would you say that this tour stood out in your memory?

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​Without a doubt. It was wonderful to reconnect with memories from my childhood in Tbilisi. There was a large park behind our house at #63 where I used to play. My mother told me so many stories about life in Tbilisi. My oldest memory is looking out of my parents' bedroom window at the street below, where there was an old, unused railroad track. I would look down at the streetcar tracks and, whenever I got the chance, would run across the street and jump over them. There were no streetcars anymore, so it was completely safe.

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I recently spoke with Benny Goodman’s daughter Rachel. She told me that audiences in Moscow reacted coolly,

with more formal applause, which disappointed Benny. But things were different in Leningrad…

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​There were no restrictions, but they didn’t overdo it either. After concerts, there weren’t necessarily jam sessions, but a few times, Soviet musicians would take the Americans to small private clubs where they played together for hours.​​

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Why didn’t Benny Goodman join these jam sessions?

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​I think Benny saw himself as more of a “grandfather” looking after everyone, rather than just another musician.

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Rachel Goodman mentioned that Benny didn’t know about these jam sessions and would likely not have approved if he had.

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​He might have been concerned about the musicians getting into trouble, but I don’t think there was anything that would have bothered him. There were some informal performances where musicians from both bands invited friends, creating a wonderful exchange. As far as I know, none of them were recorded, but I could be wrong. There might have been some private recordings, but nothing organized.

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Did the musicians release any of the music they played in the Soviet Union after returning to the U.S.?

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​A small group of musicians released some informal recordings, but they weren’t particularly interesting. These were just informal performances, poorly recorded, and done more for their own enjoyment.

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Golstein and Vikharev gave their compositions to you personally?

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​They were actually given to Benny’s librarian, a young musician responsible for managing the music and ensuring each player had their parts.

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​It’s great that American musicians received Soviet compositions and vice versa. Was this exchange formal?

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​It was all very informal, more of a personal exchange rather than something mandated by the government. Goodman received tremendous cooperation, despite initial fears of sabotage. Instead, the audience enthusiasm grew, especially for Joe Sherryl, the band’s vocalist, whose performance of the Russian song “Polushko-pole” became a modest hit in England.

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About Oleg Lundstrem:

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​Lundstrem’s band was an exceptional representative of Soviet jazz. He formed a small jazz band in the Soviet Union, and their radio broadcasts were warmly received by the public. Lundstrem eventually became the most popular jazz performer in the USSR, creating a full-size orchestra that toured the entire Soviet Union.

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He visited America twice, bringing his orchestra as part of an agreement with the Soviet government. They only performed a few concerts, which was unfortunate, as his orchestra was on par with Goodman’s. The musicians were truly dedicated and took their work seriously.

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There’s a story that Goodman brought instruments as gifts for Soviet musicians, but they were allegedly confiscated by the KGB.

Do you know about this?

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​I hadn’t heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me. The official stance varied, sometimes warmly accepting American musicians, but such incidents might have occurred due to jealousy within certain groups.

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In St. Petersburg, I saw a rare photo of Goodman on a beach in Sochi surrounded by KGB agents. Do you remember this?

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​I never heard about that specific photo. I took a few pictures myself, especially on the Black Sea when we went out on a boat trip and spent the afternoon swimming. I remember capturing some great shots of musicians enjoying themselves on the water.

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Were any of Goodman’s performances broadcast on Soviet radio or TV?

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​I don’t recall any specific broadcasts, though tapes were made. Goodman was cautious about having recordings floating around and was very mindful of his rights, even signing an exclusive recording contract that allowed him to control what could be released.

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Who chose the musicians for the tour—the State Department or Benny Goodman?

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​Goodman chose the musicians himself. At that time, he didn’t have a regular orchestra and had to form one. These musicians knew each other well, played together for years, and didn’t require much rehearsal, forming an excellent band that was very successful.

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Did you and Goodman know that jazz was somewhat underground in the Soviet Union?

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​Oh, yes, I was well aware of that.

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Some young people in the Soviet Union thought Goodman’s music wasn’t really jazz but more like dance music.

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​What Goodman played was essentially America’s most popular dance music, not necessarily classified as jazz. It didn’t really have a specific name, but it was the most popular music of its time.

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There’s a story about a few musicians visiting a synagogue in Tbilisi, which caused a scandal. Do you remember this?

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​No, I don’t remember that, but the musicians had the freedom to go wherever they wanted. If such a visit happened, I’m sure it was organized by the Soviet government as it would have made good propaganda for both countries.

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Do you remember anything about a planned jam session in Kyiv that was canceled by the authorities?

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I think I wasn’t with the band in Kyiv because, at a certain point, I realized that I needed to stop recording and start putting together an album based on what we had from the first half of the tour. Otherwise, we’d never get anything to market on time. So, I gathered the first half of the recordings, bundled them up, and flew to New York with them. 

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I wasn’t in Kyiv with the orchestra, as I understood we had to finalize the recordings and assemble an album based on what we had captured in the tour's first half. Otherwise, we’d miss the market timing. So I packed up the tapes in a big bundle and flew with them back to New York.

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At the airport, the check-in clerk insisted on weighing the large package of tapes. I protested, saying I was with the State Department, and it didn’t need to be weighed. In the end, he said I’d need to weigh my jacket with the tapes. I got angry, took off my cap, threw it on the scale, and said, “Weigh this too!” He said, “Thank you very much!” In the end, they let me take the tapes on board, but it was quite amusing. He acted exactly as I’d expect from Soviet officials—doing whatever he wanted.

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Do you remember Benny Goodman playing on Red Square? Was it planned?​​

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​Oh, sure! It was planned. The idea was for Benny to come to Red Square and be photographed in front of Lenin’s Tomb. When we got there, people quickly gathered around. Benny took out his instrument and played a few notes—about 30 seconds’ worth. Meanwhile, a cameraman Benny had hired for the tour captured the moment, as he held all rights and didn’t need any official permission.

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Did members of Goodman’s orchestra receive payment for the tour?

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​I don’t think anyone thought much about it. Everyone received a salary, but it wasn’t the same for each person; some roles were more prominent and thus paid more. Benny had a “sliding scale” approach. Musicians who spent more time on stage earned higher salaries.

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Who paid the musicians, the Soviet side or the U.S. State Department?

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​The State Department received the funds from the Soviet Union and paid the musicians directly. This was more convenient than handling the local currency and avoided delays in payments. Everyone got paid on time. The only person who wasn’t paid was me—I was salaried and received the same pay I would have earned in New York.

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Who approved your candidacy as the tour’s producer—Benny Goodman, the State Department, or was it a collective decision?

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​Me! It was my idea. I knew what I was doing, and that’s how we did it.

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Last question: what was the tour’s highest point for you, and what was the lowest?

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​The highlight was undoubtedly returning to my old home at 63 Olginskaya Street in Tbilisi. It was incredibly moving, and I was thrilled to reconnect with people I remembered from my childhood.

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Do you remember meeting Alexey Batashov?

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​Alexey became my closest friend from the tour. He was incredibly helpful, opening many doors for me. He introduced me to people I could never have met on my own. He was around 35. I was deeply saddened by his passing. When I visited Moscow, I often stayed at his apartment, which was right by the river near the city center. It was very convenient compared to a hotel because I could come and go freely without worrying about who might be following me.

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How often did you see Benny Goodman after returning from the tour?

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​I was in regular contact with Benny. We would meet at informal gatherings or receptions, especially when he received awards. I also continued recording him, especially with his quartet. Those were the same musicians I first heard when I met Benny as a high school student.

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We had many adventures together. For years, I had a scar on my hand from one such incident. It happened when I was helping Lionel Hampton secure his vibraphone to a taxi’s luggage rack. The musicians were going to play at an event to raise money for Spanish loyalists fighting against Franco. Benny asked me to join. While we were strapping the vibraphone down, I cut my hand on a metal part, and Benny, seeing the blood, wrapped my hand with his handkerchief.

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At the venue, it was a kind of dance hall overtaken by wild, drunken Spanish loyalists, with bottles of red wine and beautiful women everywhere. When we climbed the stairs, Benny’s manager said, “Look, they’re going to think you’re Benny! Just play along. They probably don’t speak English, so just be friendly.” When we got to the top of the stairs, I looked like Benny with my glasses, and a beautiful young woman immediately hugged me. They told me, “Just act the part!” So, I jumped on a table in the middle of the room and shouted, “Death to Franco!” The crowd went wild. For a few minutes, I was a hero until Benny arrived with the other musicians.

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Photos from the George Avakian Archive